Michael Walker: Alright, I'm excited to be here today with Director X. So, Director X, let me give you a quick intro. He's a visionary music video director known for crafting iconic music videos for artists like Drake, Rihanna, Kendrick Lamar, and Kanye West. Some people that maybe you've heard of.

He also directed a feature film called Superfly and developed the TV series Robyn Hood. He is also a social advocate. He's the co-founder of Operation Prefrontal Cortex, which promotes mindfulness to help combat gun violence and enhance community well-being. So, man, I'm really excited to connect today and I appreciate you taking the time to hop on the podcast to share a little bit about your experience behind artists—especially for indie artists. How can they help put their music to visuals, and how can they tell a story through their songs? So, thanks so much for taking the time today on the podcast.

Director X: Right. Yeah. Thanks for having me. And look, Superfly was shot. Superfly came out in 2018. Robyn Hood came out last year. So those things were past development—into happened.

Michael: Happened then. Yeah.

Director X: Yeah.

Michael: Yep. A hundred percent. Awesome. Well, it's great to have you on the podcast. And to start with, I'd love to just hear a little bit about your story, about how you started out to eventually working with artists like Drake, Rihanna, Kendrick Lamar, etc.

Director X: Oh yeah. I mean, I started out—I'm old school. So when I came up, the music industry was very much like, intern at a record label. A lot of people had interned to get their way in. You heard a lot of those stories, and I was one of those stories as well. I interned at a production company for Hype Williams and worked my way up. As an intern, people could see that you had the like, “Okay, this kid's smart. This kid has it. This kid's really focused. This kid's really into it.” And that was my deal.

Michael: Hmm. Awesome. So you started with an internship and really just showed up, and you had the drive and commitment to make it happen. Okay. I'm curious, as it relates to music videos in particular and just the act of storytelling through videos—

Director X: I think the main thing you want to do—or what I think is my personal philosophy—is that the music video is showcasing the artist. Showcasing the artist, their personality, who they are. And then also, there are two things happening at once: this is who the artist is, and this is what the song is. And these two things have to work together.

That's always been what gets people. People have tried doing music videos where the artist isn’t in it, and people don’t connect. I think that’s the connection side of it. At least when you get, “Yeah, I like this song. I want to know who made it.” You've gone so far beyond. You've gone past, “I like this song and I put it on a playlist,” because there’s a level of music where you don’t give a fuck. You like the song, and you don’t care who these people are. But you've gone a step further. You like them enough that you want to see, you are intrigued enough that you—now it’s a choice. It doesn’t get put in front of you.

You now have to decide. Or just the content.

I think primary for an artist coming in, when it comes to music video, is who they are. Because you could shoot a video of you standing against a wall. But if you give the performance—it could be a deep, heart-wrenching love song, and your back is against the wall, and that's one camera, one shot—you make the film look good. The look of it—maybe, let’s say black and white, crunchy blacks, right? Little spotlight. And then you just give the performance. It feels like this person is feeling the pain, and there are tears coming. Whatever it is that song evokes—you are giving it to me. That can land.

I mean, Sinéad O'Connor has a famous video, “Nothing Compares 2 U.” The whole video’s right here. That's it. And then shots of her walking around a park. The power of you as the artist. That’s what I’m here for. That’s number one.

Then, what is the song? Are you giving me the song? Are you helping me feel the record more? Is it fun? Are you being fun? Is it emotional? Are you being emotional? What is it that you want me—what are you—what? It should be an extension of the song. It should be an extension of the record. It's a chance for you to show: if you're creative, show me you're creative. If you're a stylist, show me you. Whatever that you is.

Sometimes I feel like people are like, “Okay, I'm gonna work really hard on the record. I'm gonna work hard on my live show. A video? Whatever.” No. This is part of that as well. This will get people to your live show. This will set the tone. This is it. It needs to be treated as important as that.

These aren't throwaway things.

Michael: That totally makes sense. So what I'm hearing you say is that really, the core—the most important thing—to get right with the music video is first uncovering who you are and figuring out how to actually express that in a way that's authentic. And if you try to separate it and you leave that part out, then you're missing the most important juice—the most important part. The song is sort of an extension as well of who you are, but that's kind of secondary to this main thing that you're looking to pull out, which is: who are you and what are you looking to express through the video?

Director X: It should really be merged. You and the record should be one thing. You are you, right? You're you. You're gonna be you. So it's almost—when you really know you and you're always gonna be you, that's not even something you need to—“What am I? What am I?” No. You got me.

Michael: Am I me?

Director X: Yeah. Yeah. Like, you are you. So is the record. Bring this record to life. Prove it.

It's these two things happening at once. It's almost like a yin and yang. Where the song—my job is to make this song come to life. I'm gonna think about what is the record? What is it? How can I do you right?

Or sometimes, when I get an artist, it may be: how can I do something for them that's just going to stand out? And you're gonna bring me the record, you're gonna bring me the song through your performance. Like I said, it's a super emotional song, but you're standing against the wall. Well then, bring me the emotion. Bring me the performance.

And so, as I move through now, I push now for artists to give me more. What is this record about? Especially if it’s something that you can latch onto. Is it about a lost love? Well, go think about your lost love. Think about the last time you got your heart broke. Live in that memory. Live in that space. And now perform.

We, as artists—what we do is provide the vessel for people to ride.

Michael: On the emotions you were describing—how important it is to get rooted with who you are. And that's kind of the main thing: what is this meant to express? And getting, seeping in, like in that specific emotion and being a vessel for that.

Director X: I'd say you're doing three things, right? Yeah. Music video is one—about you, clearly. Right. I don't think you need to overthink it. You are you. It's a platform for people to come to you. Right. Then it's about the song. It's not even—that's like 1, 2, 3. It's 1, 2, 3 things. Like as a whole, these are what's going into what makes it.

So it's more like a stew. One part: you, the artist. One part: you, the song. Right. And then the last ingredient is creativity. Fun. It's its own piece of art. It needs to be treated like that. So—and then you mix that all up and that is—you know. And that, I would say, especially for a younger generation, you should go look at the older music videos.

Go look at like Madonna's early music videos, Michael Jackson's early music videos. The stuff that was happening in the 2000s of the MTV era. Like, just make sure you don't—

Michael: Look at that Director X's stuff.

Director X: Yeah, go look at Mya. But look, there was a time when music videos were on TV. Everything was on TV, and that was it. Right? And music videos were part of that. You're competing. You're competing against other TV shows and what you—what I'm saying, like the money that was being spent, what that meant. It was a whole other thing.

Now everyone's competing against each other. Like a Hollywood movie is competing against a kid in his living room who's figured out his thing. Right? And gets a million views per whatever. It's a very different world you're in.

But I still think if you come back to the basics of what it is—the artist, the music, the art of what it is itself—then you're making something for people. And I think you'll find your space.

Michael: Love it. Yeah. I feel like this is one thing that I'm very grateful to connect with folks like yourself who've really mastered these different domains. And I feel like one pattern that comes out is everyone is so deep into the fundamentals of what's really important.

So you're able to kind of cut through all the extra stuff, which is nice, like bells and whistles. But really, it kind of comes down to the heart or the core of what's really important—those fundamentals. So I really appreciate that focus.

And yeah, I think the last question that I have for you is maybe more related just to your overall mindset and how you show up. Because, I mean, it's very competitive, right? There's a lot of people that are creating music, creating artwork. And like you mentioned at the beginning, there's also a lot of people interning and doing things as well.

So I'm curious, from your perspective, what do you think is the main thing that sort of sets apart someone who is able to eventually be able to make that kind of impact that you and the artists that you work with have been able to make—versus people that maybe give up sooner?

Director X: I don't know, bro. I think about it all the time. When, like, you hear Matthew McConaughey saying, “Oh, you just never give—don't have a plan B.” Eddie Murphy's like, “No plan B.” Yeah, you're Eddie Murphy.

I can't speak to—I just visualized myself doing it. I don't know, bro. How many people have you seen come and go, make it, not make it? Right?

At the end of the day, I mean, following your interests—that's the safest bet. For me, it's been following your interests. You're interested in music? Go follow music. And where that takes you is a different story.

I know there's a dancer that I knew—never booked work, never booked a job. Tried and tried and tried. Just wanted to be a backup dancer. Just never booked anything. But eventually started working at an agency representing dancers. Right?

So yeah, in her twenties she didn't book anything. But representing dancers puts her in the world that she loves. And she'll be doing that job—she can do that job till the day she dies. Right?

Even those other dancers that were booking work—well, some of them got, “Oh, what am I gonna do now? I've aged out.” You know what I'm saying?

So follow your interest. What are you interested in? Start there. And then let it be. Let that go to where it goes. And for some people, following your interest means yeah, you're doing the thing. You're doing the big thing. You're the director making the big movie. You're the artist on the stage doing the big show.

And that's not everybody. And that's just life. So alright. But wouldn't you rather be doing something—you might not be a megastar gazillionaire, but at least you're working in the field you love. You're not in a cubicle. You know what I'm saying?

Like, you gotta—so that's my thing. I can't propose to you that I know the magic sauce that makes you successful. But I can—

Michael: I appreciate the answer. That feels like a very honest answer, which is true. Because nobody has this sort of—everything figured out. And if it was, then it would be—I don't know, kind of boring. Kind of boring. Because there would be no variables.

So what I'm hearing you say is that whatever you do, it's going to be unique to you. And you should follow your interest.

And it reminds me of that—was it Joseph Campbell? That says, “Follow your bliss.” Yeah. And that's something that's going to guide you in the right direction as long as you let go, and you let it be, and you actually listen to that intuition.

Director X: And be open to what it is. And I think if you get too, like, "Oh, I can't do that. I'm not that type of..." Well, you don't know, bro. There's definitely people that say, "Oh, don't do this, don't do that." Like, if it's not the thing you want, then don't do it. But how do you get to the thing you want if you don't?

Early in my career, I did a lot of—I just, I wanted to shoot. I would shoot it. I wanted to shoot. I wanted to shoot. That's what it was. And that's what's important. At least I can walk in and make it something for myself.

One of my early—like back in the day when record companies would pay money to make little commercials for whatever artist—I got one for this artist, and he had a horrible idea. I shot his idea as best I could. It was a horrible idea. But I went in there and did the best I could possibly do with his horrible idea. But then I also convinced him, like, "Give me a song. Give me like a verse and a chorus of one of your songs, and we'll go in the basement of the studio and shoot like a little music video."

Well, now I had something for me, and I'm able to say, "Look at this thing," to people. "Oh, this is all right." I'll give you a little—this wasn't gonna get me a big job, but it got me the next little step forward. Right? And then that little step forward got me another little, and then another little step. And another little step.

But I wouldn't have got that little thing 'cause that client—I came in, and the horrible idea, at least I did—"All right, this is a horrible idea, but it looks good," right? Mm-hmm. And then here's that little step. Okay? So I got to take the little step. And the client was like, "Oh, okay, maybe another." And they have another little thing and boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Right?

So, you follow your interests. You follow your interests. You try and make it work for you. Yes, you're trying to do your bid. You shouldn't be so selfish that you don't care. I mean, I'm speaking from the perspective as gun for hire. I realize you're—you talk to artists, they're kinda like the end run. But perhaps it's about doing a show at a place you don't want to do. Maybe you're going on, you're doing the festival, and you got the first—you got the first. You're scheduled first. They have said to you, "You are the least important person on this lineup." You are the one. All right. And it hurts your ego, right?

And I've seen people do this. I've seen people say, "I'm not going on. I'm first. I'm not performing." Okay. Or you could make it for you. You go test something. Find something in it for you. And there's gonna be a few people there. You've still got a job to do.

You hear actors—like you hear Robert De Niro, saw a clip of him talking about—you go to the audition, that's the job. The audition's the job. And you go in there, even if you know you're not gonna get it, you go in there and give it, because you don't know. You're not right for this, but remember that guy who came in and read for that? "Maybe we... yeah, that guy was amazing." Mm-hmm.

Right. So I think there's a part of this—as artists, just speaking as artists—whenever you step to your art, you do it wholeheartedly. Especially if you're doing it because it's time to do what we all want to do with our art. We're gonna put it in front of other people. One person, 10 people. You know what I'm saying? It's what we all want to do. This is what we're all—it's innate inside of us. Everyone wants to sing for the biggest crowd. Everyone wants to paint their graffiti on the wall that everyone walks by, right? So you give it all.

And then when you're in those situations where it's not what you want, it's not the dream, you're clearly not at the destination, you're on the journey—well then, yeah. You have a responsibility to the art to do your best, and then to find something in there that you can latch onto, something that you can come away with. All right? "I don't want to—this is not the place I want to perform, the audience that I want, but I'm going to try this. I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna make this work for me in this way." Find a little bit. Find something to be selfish about. And then, then go forth.

Michael: Good stuff. Yeah, that sounds like what you're saying is that no matter the situation, no matter where you're at, you can always use it as an opportunity to learn something and take steps closer to ultimately where we're gonna get to. And it's maybe a little bit like playing a game of golf, where you're gonna have to take some swings, and sometimes you might shank it. But as long as you keep swinging and you keep on showing up and you keep saying, "How can I aim again? How can I swing again?"—then you might not always find yourself in a hole-in-one, but as long as you keep showing up, you keep swinging one step at a time, that's what's required in order for you to actually be able to make it into the hole.

Director X: Absolutely.

Michael: Hmm. Good stuff. All right, so last question for you. Right now as I'm recording this, there's kind of this new wave or this new era of creativity happening in the form of AI, generative AI. And also there's a lot of question marks and controversy and concern over how this tool's gonna be used, how it's gonna affect artists.

And so I'd love to hear your perspective as someone that I'm guessing has lived through a few of these different types of revolutions and seen the fears come and go—and been able to use the tools effectively to communicate and express the art. How would you recommend the artists who are listening to this right now, who are kind of on the edge with AI—how should they think about AI and those tools?

Director X: That's another tool. See what it does. See what it pushes forward. Let's give it a shot. I mean, fighting technology's not gonna work. I remember when the record industry was trying to stop people from using downloads. "No, no. Buy CDs. CDs. You should buy these CDs." They were running commercials with Britney Spears saying, "Don't steal from me." Like a commercial right after MTV Cribs, where she's like, "This is my gazillion mansion." And then next was like, "Don't steal from me. I'm just money." You know what I mean? Like, wow. But beyond the fighting it—this is what it is. This is where the technology—this is where it's taking us.

Yeah, so you hear all these crazy stories about AI songs. Like there's AI songs on platforms where they're just making AI songs. And it pops up some play—I don't know what the—it makes no sense, but it's what's going on. All right. Then what? What can we do? What do we do that AI can't do?

Well, AI right now, it can only take things in and amalgamate, right? What do we—so we can make things look good. It can kind of take a bit of this and a bit of that. But does it feel?

If we dig in deeper to the real human—humanity—can't perform in person, right? Mm-hmm. I don't know, brother. We're in new territory. But hoping it'll go away isn't gonna happen. Telling people not to use it isn't gonna happen. So maybe there's a bit of "What can you do? How can you make it work for you? What do you bring to the table?"

As a director, when I do something, I always try—"What am I gonna bring? What am I gonna bring to the table? What am I gonna do here that no one else can do?" Well, when it comes to cameras and lenses and lights, there's a million—there's DPs. People that—tons of people understand this shit. Tons of people understand this shit. They know the lenses and things better than me. Right?

But I can get some emotion out of an artist that they might not. I can go over there and tell them to dig into the—again, like I said, "I need songs about your great love." Well, go think about—take a second. Think about your greatest love. Close your eyes. Think about when you were most in love, when it was just oozing outta you. See the place. See the time. Have the memory.

Now that you have that, sing the song. Bring that in. I'll challenge that to your artists. I do that when I make the music video. When I make you perform it, I challenge you to do it when you're making the song. Take a minute before you sing your vocals, before you play your instrument, to think about what the song's about—whether it's fun, whether it's love, romance, whatever it is—the emotion of that song. Go for a minute. Close your eyes. Think about it. And find that energy. If it's a party, it's the craziest party you've been to. If it's love, it's the deepest love you've ever had. If it's anger—go find it. Live in it. And then open your eyes and play your instrument. Open your eyes and sing your song. Open your eyes and perform.

'Cause AI can't do that.

Michael: Ah, good stuff. Yeah. So, so it sounds like what you're saying is that, first of all, you gotta face reality as it is. And so these tools, whether we want them to be here or not, they are here. And so learning and asking, like, how can we be resourceful and use them in a way that, right now, it can't replace is a place to lean into.

And I love that tip of whether you're recording a music video or recording vocals for a song, or just writing a song—like you steeping in that emotion and really kind of cultivating that emotion, learning how to put yourself in that place, remember it, and bring it up—is such a powerful exercise, I imagine, across all sorts of different pieces of art.

That's a great tip.

Director X: Man, I know that you are a busy guy, and even just being here today, there's some things coming up for you to deal with. So I really appreciate you setting aside some space to come on here and share some of the lessons that you've learned. And for anyone that's listening to this, watching this right now, that wants to either connect more or potentially even see if it's a good fit to work together, what's the best place for them to go to connect?

I mean, my website is directorxfilms.com. I gotta be very honest, to work with me, you need a label backing you. The amount of money it takes for me to pull up is—you know what I’m saying? These are large endeavors. So, but hey, if you got a couple hundred thousand dollars, you know?

Yeah, it is. It is. These are the realities of the realm that I'm in, you know what I’m saying? Yeah. But my website is directorxfilms.com and, or my Instagram is @DirectorX. And, you know, check me out, send a message, see what's up. I can't promise that we're gonna get to everybody or everything, but I mean, I just encourage everybody to get out there and do their hustle. I think that's more important than hitting up me and hoping that I'm gonna be the guy and all that kind of stuff.

I think with the bigger reality for indie artists, I think your guy is right around you. Somewhere right around you, there's someone right on your level. There's a peer. You have peers. Finding your peer. I'm an old guy now. I can give you sage advice like I've given you here. I can give you new ways to approach the game, but there's someone out there who's right on your level, who's hungry like you are, and when it comes to the visuals, they're ready to explode.

And you want to be—that’s what you want—you all want to detonate together.

Michael: Hmm. Oh man.

Director X: That's great.

Michael: Well man, thank you again for taking the time to be on the podcast. We’ll make sure to link up everything in the show notes for easy access, in case there is someone with the backing of a record label who's interested in reaching out and seeing if it's a good fit.

Director X: Your label can find me.

Michael: Appreciate you on the podcast.

Director X: Yep. The game's real. Tell your video commissioner who you're looking for.

Michael: There we go.