Michael Walker: Yeah. Alright, I'm excited to be here today with my new friend, Alexia Erlichman. Alexia has built a powerhouse marketplace connecting independent musicians with top industry players in film, TV, advertising, and gaming. So that's part of the company MusicGorilla, and I'm excited to have her on the podcast today.

Talk a little bit about showcasing your talent in the current market where there's so many talented artists and so much noise. How do you actually cut through the noise and connect with people? And in particular, you had mentioned that you have some experience in terms of being showcased during South by Southwest. So I'm looking forward to connecting and hearing a little bit of feedback from you in terms of how artists can best learn to cut through the noise in such a noisy marketplace.

So thank you for taking the time to be on the podcast today.

Alexia Erlichman: Thank you for having me. Yeah, it is definitely noisy out there. I think it's interesting because more recently, artists have gotten a lot more opportunities to get their music out. But also with that, of course, comes a lot of music and a lot of artists and a lot of people at the same time trying to progress their music, get exposure for their music, all kinds of things like that.

And I think it is very difficult to cut through the noise. But I think for artists, the best thing to do is just do what you do. Write good songs. Keep writing good songs. Don't rely on the most popular thing that you have right now. Keep going. Continue learning your craft. Continue learning how to market.

I think musicians have a very difficult job these days because they have to do everything. So they're wearing multiple hats. And marketing is a very, very difficult one. So I think that if they can focus on the music and let the music speak for them, let the music rise to the top, it will find a home.

Michael: Awesome. Yeah. So what I'm hearing you say is that it's important to focus on the fundamentals and go deep there. There's a lot of different channels and opportunities and things that are coming up. But at the end of the day, ultimately it does come back to having a good product and focusing on your music and going deeper into that. And that'll make all of the other parts of it more effective when you have that first part.

Alexia: Yes, exactly. And you hope the good rises to the top and that is how it should work. And it doesn't always. I mean, we come across fantastic artists and we're like, how are these people still unknown or still not gaining traction? But I do think that as a rule, that's the most important thing—just focus on what you do best.

Michael: I think that's a great point. It reminds me of an analogy that I think fits this idea pretty well, which is that building a community or building your music career is like building a fire. The music is like the logs. And if you're trying to start the fire with wet grass, then it doesn't really matter how much marketing or plans you have—it's not gonna work.

But if you have it doused in lighter fluid and it's amazing, now, on its own, is it gonna magically start fire? Probably not. Maybe lightning might strike, but it's pretty rare. But it requires some marketing and promotion to generate the sparks or the flames. But you need both. And if you do have wet grass, it's not gonna work.

Alexia: That's a great analogy. And it's true. If you have that good base, if you have that good thing, then other people will come to it and they'll help you start that fire. They'll help you increase that span. So I think that has to be the number one priority for artists.

Michael: Awesome. Do you want to dive into that specific need then in terms of products, or do you want to focus more on the vein of current sparks now that they have that product?

Alexia: So I mean, for us, for my background and for where MusicGorilla comes in, we want to give artists a platform. There are a million platforms out there. We don't do distribution—we're not trying to be something that we're not. But what we focus on are opportunities in media.

So film, TV, commercial placement, even higher-level blogs. We try not to focus on the very saturated markets, but we do try to get artists good, solid opportunities for their music. And then we do showcases so that people get live experience and they have the opportunity to showcase live.

I think that because so much is done in home or in studio now, artists tend to forget that building a live show and building a live base can really help as a catalyst. It's one of those logs, quite honestly. And it helps your music reach more people. It helps get more exposure for your music. And I think there's less of a focus on playing live these days than there used to be.

So we do showcases during South by Southwest. We do industry showcases in New York City. The artists get feedback on their performances, and we invite A&R, but we also invite producers and publishers. And we get the artist feedback on their music, so they have some direction. They have some like, okay, this is fantastic and is working great, but maybe focus a little bit more on this one item—just to help further your product.

So I do think that if you have a good song, that's the beginning. But if you can get the opportunities or get the appropriate media outlets for that song, that can be huge.

Michael: Awesome. Yeah, that's super helpful. Having feedback reminds me of another analogy—it makes me think of shooting a free throw blindfolded and trying to make it in the hoop. You have no idea where you're even aiming.

So being able to come to a showcase and get real feedback that gives direction is extremely helpful. And it sounds like what you're saying is it starts with the song, it starts with the log, and then some of those opportunities to generate sparks or flames start to really matter.

Can you share a little bit more about how someone knows if their biggest challenge or opportunity is focusing on music production, or how they know if they're ready for some of those opportunities to get their music out?

Alexia: I think they have to have honed their skills to some extent. We could talk about real logistics: you have to have a quality recording, you have to have your information embedded in your track, you have to have all of the straightforward, basic stuff. We always say that artists have to have a radio edit of their music and an instrumental version. If they're submitting something to a television show, you can't have explicit language, so you need a radio edit. You need instrumental versions of your tracks. These are always useful things if you're planning on pushing your music to film, TV, commercials—any media basically. So in terms of the very basic stuff, I would say those are priorities. And once you have those laid out, you need music that you believe in. But a lot of the time it's just a question of finding the right thing for the right project.

In other words, you could have a perfect song, but if it doesn't fit exactly what the music supervisor has in their head—or what the director for that matter has in their head—it's not gonna matter. It could be absolutely ideal, but some of it is just that spark. Some of it is the meeting of the minds and hearing the right thing at the right time in the right place and having it click.

Michael: Awesome. That makes sense. So it sounds like what you're saying is that often music supervisors have a particular thing that just fits the project. And so it's not even necessarily a matter of whether the music is good or not—that's important—but oftentimes it's more just about the fit and finding a relevant placement.

What are your thoughts around sync licensing and these types of opportunities? I think it's a great business opportunity for artists where they can make absolutely full-time income from this one avenue. Absolutely.

I also know that sometimes artists have mixed feelings around knowing how much time and what strategy to dive into this. For example, should they just write for sync and focus on that particular angle? Or should they focus on their original music and then also try to have sync opportunities? Curious to hear your thoughts on who has the best odds of getting that outcome.

Alexia: That's a great question because there are many artists who do write for sync. What they do, they see an opportunity, they write something specifically for that opportunity, and then they submit it. Sometimes it's very difficult because sometimes the opportunities themselves have a very quick turnaround time. So you have to be a person who can write quickly if that's going to be your mode of operandi.

So I think that, to me, it depends what your goals are. If you are looking to make a career in music—not necessarily in music licensing—but make a career in music where you're looking to tour and you're looking to put out records and you're going that direction, then I feel, and these are not mutually exclusive, but then I feel like you write your music, put out your best product, and if that happens to fit with a licensing opportunity, fantastic. But I think that that should be the focus for those artists—putting out their best music, regardless of what the opportunity may be asking for.

That said, obviously people can make an excellent living just licensing, and royalties, and all kinds of things like that. So I do think that there is an artist out there. I have to say, in my experience, most of the artists who are solely focused on sync are older people who don't necessarily want to tour, or don't feel like they want to be on the road anymore, don't feel like they want to be away from their families, or whatever it is.

But those are two different directions and I think it's very difficult to write for sync. It's very difficult to write for a specific opportunity. A lot of the time there are things that are specific requests. In other words, they'll list an artist that they're looking for a vibe of in terms of the opportunity. And I think that if you're an artist who can do that, that's great. But I feel like there are a lot less people who can do that than may think they can do that. It's a very difficult process to specifically write for sync, and because you're spanning genres also, right? So you have to be good at a lot of different things in order to do that. And of course, have an excellent setup where you can get a high-quality recording very quickly.

Michael: Hmm. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. It sounds like what you're saying is that while possible, and sometimes people do do that, especially if their goals are more aligned with being at home with families, they might focus particularly on sync. It can be challenging because the requests that come in are often very custom-specific to a certain type of genre or certain kind of artist. And so if you're trying to be a chameleon and trying to bounce between, then often maybe the quality won't be quite on par with what it would be if you were completely focused on that and it was authentic to you and your style of music.

And so often, just by focusing on your original music and creating the best quality product, then what you talked about earlier about matching it to the right opportunities, it can be a powerful angle to take.

Alexia: Yeah. And more natural too. In other words, it's much more likely that that song you wrote that happens to align with this request is going to be a great fit because it came naturally, because you weren't forcing it. It is what you do. In other words, if you focus on what you're good at and you focus on what speaks to you, that's going to come through in your music.

Michael: Hmm. That's great. Yeah, it definitely feels like it's kind of a relief when you can just sort of let go or just be who you are, be yourself, and let that be the thing, because it doesn't take as much. Yeah. You don't have to really try to be yourself. If you try to be yourself, then it's like—

Alexia: Then you are.

Michael: Yeah, like you can't. And so, yeah. So it is a lot easier just to do what is authentic.

Alexia: Yeah, absolutely.

Michael: Cool. I'm curious to hear your thoughts on—obviously right at the time of recording this, there's like a whole wave of AI revolution as it relates to all kinds of fields, but in particular generative music. It's kind of the wild west in terms of copyright royalties. What's your take as an insider on the world right now and where you think it might be headed?

Alexia: I think the world is crazy. I think that AI can be a tool. I think that AI can be a tool for musicians. I think that AI can be a tool for songwriters. I think actually generally for the world, AI is a great tool. But it's not a replacement. In other words, I don't believe that AI will replace artists, or that the music coming from AI will be better than music coming from human artists.

But I do think it's a powerful tool and I think people should use it as a powerful tool. There's been a lot of technology and a lot of changes in technology, even looking at the last 20 years. And if you use things—there have been many things that people said, "Oh my God, this is gonna be a terrible thing for humanity. This is going to destroy artistic vision," or whatever it is. Even coming down to being able to record at home. These are all technological advances, and if you use them as tools, they can be that for you rather than being something scary or something that's going to take over the world.

Michael: Yeah, it is a wild time to be alive. The fact that we can have this conversation is pretty wild. What I'm hearing you say is that there have been a lot of different technology revolutions, and often, especially in the music industry, we resist it and we're afraid of it, drag our feet too long, and then it happens anyways. And then it's like, now we're way behind because the technology was always coming.

And so as long as we approach this in a way where we understand it's the tool and we try to avoid acting out of fear, but instead of worrying about it replacing us, we use it as a way to augment and facilitate our creativity. That is one way that we can not be left behind and not be hit by the tidal wave, but we can kind of swim along with it.

Alexia: Yeah, absolutely. And I think that if you use things to your advantage, then they are to your advantage. If you embrace things, or you're an early adopter, or you become an expert at Blue Sky because it's the next social platform, or whatever that looks like in your world—if you make it something good and you make it something that you're using to your benefit, it's very powerful. It's like the path of least resistance. If you resist something, the energy is going against it and it doesn't allow you to move forward.

Michael: That's great. Yeah. I mean, I feel like I'm an analogy machine. It's kind of like if you're trying to catch a wave, the wave is coming, it's happening, and the energy is there. You can either swim along with it and try to catch it and get momentum, and if you do then that's going to give you a nice boost. But if you try to swim against it, it might literally just come toppling on top of you.

Alexia: Absolutely.

Michael: There are a lot of different waves, revolutions that happen.

Alexia: Absolutely. And to go with that water analogy, there's a saying that water is the most powerful element on earth because it's perfectly non-resistant. It's going to go around, it's going to go through, it's going to go under, it's going to go over. If you look at things that way as a person, but especially as an artist, and you think about, okay, if I am using AI for something, how can AI be useful to me? Because that is the intention of it. The intention of AI is not to take over the world. The intention of AI is to improve things. It's to further things along. So if you can use it to that end, then I think it can be a great tool for artists.

Michael: Hmm. Awesome. I like it. I love technology and I love the conversation around AI. I use it a lot. It's like my executive personal assistant. How do you use it?

Alexia: That's great.

Michael: A lot of things. But the reason I bring it up is I'm definitely a tech optimist. I think that the trend of technology has always been towards creating more freedom and alleviating suffering and pain, solving problems. So I'm a believer in entrepreneurs. I'm a believer in how technology evolves. I also have question marks around AI and digital superintelligence and where it's headed as it relates to previous technological revolutions. Like, I wonder if there's something inherently different. If it is just sort of like the same kinds of revolutions we've always had with technology, or if it does become agentic and we have a quote-unquote artificial general intelligence or even a superintelligence—how does that fundamentally differ from previous technological breakthroughs?

And I guess one thing that brings me solace is just thinking that if we do reach a point where somehow musicians or a lot of the roles we have are replaced, then probably all of the roles for all of us are gonna be in the same boat. But I'm with you about art in particular, because art seems like one of those things that—even if the rules of the economy start to break down because of supply and demand, like if we have unlimited abundance and human labor is basically no longer a limiting factor—art still seems like one of those things that is subjective. Where we culturally decide what's valuable. Who's to say the Mona Lisa is actually worth $800 million?

Alexia: Yeah.

Michael: And we just decided. We just decided. And so I feel like art and music in particular is tied more to this identity-based expression, which can't fundamentally be replaced by AI or by a computer. So compared to most roles and jobs that potentially could be replaced, the actual act of expression and the act of identity itself is something that fundamentally can't be replaced.

Alexia: I agree. And if you look historically at things, certainly music has evolved, but music has been around since humans have been around. Sound and creating sound for enjoyment has been around since the earliest days of humanity. And if you look at a fine arts example, you can create art on a computer, but it doesn't stop people from painting. It doesn't stop people from sculpting. And I feel like it's a similar progression. In other words, just because you can do it doesn't mean that will be the sole version of it. And I think what you say about art being subjective is very important because it is. You're gonna hear something completely different than I hear.

Michael: I like it. Yeah. So art is the expression of who we are, which we can have tools that help us craft a vision or idea, but ultimately it's the source itself—the creative impulse or channel—that is the true nature of art. For sure. Didn't expect to get this philosophical.

Alexia: I know.

Michael: That's great. It wasn't a rabbit hole. Cool. So talking about showcasing art and being able to present that in a way that connects with the right people—could you share a little bit about, when it comes to a successful showcase, something like South by Southwest? If an artist is interested in being a feature or being selected for an opportunity like that, how do they get started and how do they create something that's worth sharing on a platform like that?

Alexia: I think that again comes back to the live show. The live show has to be engaging. It has to be honed. It has to be in a place that's ready for public consumption. I know lots of artists who will play no matter who's in the audience. And I know other artists who get very disappointed if they don't have a packed house. And that's just the reality of the situation—the day, the time, the combination of things. And I'm not even talking about South by Southwest. I'm talking about your local venue.

It doesn't matter who you're playing for. The point is that you use that opportunity to make your product better. You make your live show better by doing it, by doing it over and over again. And so I think in terms of showcasing at a conference like South by Southwest, the product has to be good. And you want your show to go with your music. You don't want it to take away from your music, but you want it to go with your music.

We've had lots of different types of artists. We've been doing unofficial showcases at South by Southwest for more than 20 years. And we really focus on showcasing as many artists as possible. We're very diverse in terms of the artists that we showcase. But they just have to have a good product. And it's everyone from singer-songwriters to hip hop to heavy metal. We've had some really fun artists that have a whole kitschy thing going on—where they're dressed in neon, carrying a boombox, and just having a party on stage. And everything translates because they've really focused on their live show.

Michael: Awesome. So what I'm hearing you say is that really one of the most important things is practice and showing up and doing it repeatedly. And that's how you sharpen the saw, sharpen the edge of the live show. So maybe a place to start is—let's say someone who's listening right now is earlier on, where they haven't really tapped into their local market yet. They haven't started playing some of these shows. What are some opportunities or things you'd recommend they start with in order to sharpen that saw or get better at their live show? And in particular, feedback—you talked about that earlier. If someone's looking to improve quickly, what do you recommend they do to start?

Alexia: They can watch. They can look at videos of other artists playing live—maybe not at a Taylor Swift level where there's a ton of production behind her, but on a middle ground. There are tons of examples on YouTube of bands playing live. And I think that's one thing.

You could also, if you're a singer depending on what you're doing, do it in the mirror. Record yourself. Enable yourself to view yourself while you're singing. See if you're looking down, if you're making eye contact—all of these things are very important. And that's important for a band with five members or a singer-songwriter who's up on stage solo. You want to be able to engage the audience.

So a great way of doing that is recording yourself performing. You could even record yourself performing and put it on YouTube and get general feedback from the masses. You could do the same thing on reels or anywhere else. But even watching yourself back, you'll be able to see—"Oh, okay, I was looking down the entire time," or "I was too focused on my hands on the guitar." You know what you're doing and you can see it yourself. You don't need other people to tell you.

And I think that's a really good way. Again, it comes down to practicing and being open to feedback.

Michael: That's great. So even before needing external feedback, it's great just to have perspective, to record yourself as you're doing it. It probably helps you feel more comfortable too, so you know how you're coming across.

It reminds me of dancers. I'm not a dancer—I'm one of the world's worst dancers—but my wife is an amazing dancer. She was world-level, number two in the world with her team. I've seen their practices, and they have big mirrors in front of themselves. The mirrors help them see if they're doing it right. That same thing applies to performances. If you can see yourself as you're doing it, that's a great way to get instant feedback and auto-correct.

Alexia: Yeah. Even silly things like eye contact, being too focused on your instrument, or having your eyes all over the place. All of those things, even though they sound simple and obvious, you don't realize you're doing them. We all have things we don't realize we're doing, and they come across on film for sure.

Michael: Hmm. That makes a lot of sense. Alright, well it's been fun connecting with you today and talking. We kind of covered the gambit. We got very practical, kind of focused on the fundamentals. You busted out a bunch of analogies. We also talked about the future and the singularity and technology. Yeah, it was fun. I would love to bring it back as well to MusicGorilla.

And, you know, someone’s listening to this right now or watching this and they would very likely be interested to understand more about MusicGorilla and the platform. Could you share a little bit about what MusicGorilla is, how it works, and who it’s a good fit for?

Alexia: I mean, I can just go from a very basic perspective. So, we don’t judge music. We do screen some of our submissions. We are selective with showcases, but anybody can sign up and anybody can use our platform on both ends. In other words, we screen our industry membership, but industry members can sign up and look for music for any projects they’re working on.

We’ve worked with many A&R reps over the years from every label you can imagine. We invite them, and then the artists can sign up for artist profiles and browse our opportunities. They are proactive—in other words, they decide what to submit to and what not to. And then we do our showcases, and artists can submit to those as well.

We’re also getting ready to branch out a little bit. In terms of just going back to the feedback we were talking about, we feel like feedback is an absolutely vital tool for artists. And so we are looking at how we can expand our platform to be more useful to artists, to provide them things that will help them hone their craft, but also allow them to move forward in it and be better at what they’re doing.

So we’re making some changes, but that’s what we have going on right now. Looking to the future, we’re hoping to expand and really become a base for artists to be educated, but also to use every tool in their toolbox to advance their careers in whatever direction they want to go.

Michael: Hmm. Cool. That sounds super helpful. Yeah, I mean, even just having that feedback from someone—where it’s just a simple prompt like, “What did you like about this? What could be improved?”—I can imagine it’s sort of like shooting a free throw and then seeing where it landed so that you can aim in a different direction.

Alexia: And then even in specific realms—I mean, for booking, for publishing, for songwriting, or for marketing. Artists have to wear so many hats that any light on their path is helpful. Anything that can say, “Okay, this makes your life a little bit easier,” I think is very productive.

Michael: Cool. Good stuff. Well, Alexia, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. I’ve really enjoyed our conversation. And for anyone that is interested in checking out the MusicGorilla platform, what’s the best place for them to go to dive in and to connect with you personally?

Alexia: They can just go to the website at musicgorilla.com, and they can email me directly at alexia@musicgorilla.com. You can feel free to include my contact information with this. We like to be very accessible. We have a lot of artists on our platform, but we’re very communicative and we happily respond to anybody who wants to reach out to us. And then of course, we’re on Instagram, Facebook, everywhere—Bluesky, all of them.

But yeah, thank you for your time. Thanks for having me.

Michael: Absolutely. Like always, we’ll put all the links in the show notes for easy access. And yeah, looking forward to talking again sometime soon.

Alexia: Yeah, that sounds great.

Michael: Yeah.