Michael Walker: Yeah. Hmm. All right. I'm excited to be here today with my new friend, Allison Moore. Allison, lemme give you a quick intro. So, Allison's the VP of Marketing at Splash Music. They're creating next generation fan engagements, experiences through tech and experiences. And I was telling her backstage that the timing is great 'cause my son. Getting really into Roblox and creating these worlds. We actually created like a vision board this weekend, and one of the things I was on his board was, creating, these kinds of, spaces and experiences and now I just stumbled upon Splash Music like. This looks awesome. Looks really cool. It sounds like you come from a background with, services and content strategy at SoundCloud and Sony Music. You're an industry thought leader, featured at WMC and other top conferences on music, AI, and gaming. So I'm gonna try my best not to geek out and talk too much. I, I wanna, I wanna hear everything that you're doing at Splash Music because it sounds right up my alley in terms of stuff I love to geek out about. And so I'm excited to connect with you today and just, and have a conversation about, the future of where music is heading and, and where these tools can help benefit artists to be able to connect with their fans. Yeah. So Allison, thank you so much for being here today.

Allison Moore: Awesome. Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm really excited to talk about this. We, you mentioned, the Roblox experience and how we, kids are getting super excited about Roblox and, the lean-in behavior there. But, we built, at Splash, we built the biggest, the largest music game on Roblox with over 520 million plays. Wow. And actually anyone in that game can step on stage and perform, so. There's a lot of exciting things that you can do inside the game, but that's, a core experience that, our users actually have. And so there's a real, musical base inside of our player base. And so our newest product actually that we're, that we've launched is, is called We Mixed. And that takes that, experience a little bit further. Let's fans create their own mixes with artist-provided sound drops, and then add their own voice. And instantly get heard by millions of other fans, because the music that they make actually powers the soundtrack to the game.

Michael: Hmm. Wow. So that's so cool.

Allison: Yeah.

Michael: So I would love to hear a little bit more about just the genesis of, this idea, how it, how it got created and, and, and also maybe to start with just a breakdown, exactly what it is that you've created on, on Roblox. Honestly, maybe even for, folks who aren't fully familiar with Roblox. You don't have a 7-year-old, a kid that's just getting into it right now. Could you share a little bit of an introduction into how it all works?

Allison: Yeah, absolutely. Roblox is, a platform for, game developers to build on. And in that way it's, just like most gaming platforms now, incredibly interactive and super, super lean-in behavior. It's not just game developers actually building games. It's kids themselves building their own worlds and experiences. Everything about gaming is very interactive and playful. Not a passive, not a passive type, of media. When, myself and, the team that, working on this new Mixed product, we've sort of applied that same, desire and motivation that we know that kids have inside of these gaming worlds where they don't just want to passively consume. They actually want to become part of the experience. They want to engage. And when we looked around and at the gaming world and we were looking at what was going on in there, we. We notice very obviously, that music isn't really part of that interactive experience. It is becoming more so, and people are leaning into that. Larger studios are leaning into that, but even if you look at the, virtual concerts that go on, oftentimes they're just, big headlines of, Hey, so and so was here. They're not here anymore. And so what we thought was, why not create, Why don't, why not actually make music interactive in the gaming space and actually create the opportunity for anyone to participate, to lean in and to actually make music interactive, in that way to, help kids connect with the music. Games, Roblox and really any platform that is UGC, led at this point is really where, kids are discovering. Each other opportunity, what they love. And, when we're kids, when you're young, that's when you develop your musical tastes and you fall in love with the bands that you're gonna love forever and the genres that you're, that are gonna be close to your heart for the rest of your life, really. And so, what better time now than to, introduce, different genres and artist sounds and, that experience of making music, that, the rush that comes from, knowing that you've made something you can, be proud of and that other people get to hear. It isn't just something you've created for yourself. And then it, just sits, without sharing it out wide. We're really excited about, about that. And we think about, the, the Roblox experience that we have, and the Mixed product, We Mixed, as, you know. We talk about it as an ecosystem because it really is just, communities supporting each other. It's, Hey, we're in here playing this game. I'm on stage, I'm doing my thing. Oh, hey, I'm, I'm over here making my own music. And that's powering, the soundtrack to the game and what you can play on stage and stuff. It's actually, they're both creator communities and they, want to interact, together.

Michael: Hmm. That's so cool. So what I'm hearing you say is that really the, the main purpose that that's driving the platform that you're building is about helping people connect with each other and to interact more, consciously with media rather than just, passively, I don't know, watching YouTube where it's like a one-way sided thing. When you have a video game or you have this experience or world, it's really about this two-way connection about people expressing themselves and about kids who are, in the stage to, to be able to unlock their creativity and, and express who they are and discover their favorite artists.

Allison: Yeah.

Michael: Would love to hear your perspective on where, you think the world is headed for artists in terms of, I mean, obviously this is, this is a good question to make us, make everyone look like a fool, you know, 10 years from now. But I'm curious from your perspective, kind, it feels like this type of platform is very cutting edge in terms of the direction that, that. Things are heading in terms of creating digital, spaces and experiences. And, I'm curious from your perspective where if someone's listening to this right now and they're kind of on the edge looking in, but they're a musician and they want to build communities and they want to, foster this relationship and the interaction, why do you think that these types of digital spaces are worth paying attention to?

Allison: Yeah. Well, music is really about connection, full on, I guess, full stop to that statement. Right. I spent a lot of my earlier career doing artist development and, thinking about, I wanna age myself here, but thinking about what was going on while I was doing artist development over those years of, the emergence of music blogs and then social media came into play and artists had to try to become, personalities on social media and learn how to post and different things like that. It's really hard to, manage all of that now, but it is so critical to actually find the space that's, authentic to you as an artist and actually make the connections with the fans. Building a fan base and building your audience around you is the most important thing for artists to do, right? What I love about this gaming space and, and, and, just thinking about how we. Artists are interacting with fans now, is that there's, you see it happening, but there's just more and more of that kind of direct connection going on. Artists getting actually access to their fans. That's, kind of a newer thing. Having the fans not be, wholly owned by the platforms is, is super important, but, the level of connection is it needs to be authentic. And, what we see in this space that we're working in with our We Mixed product and the idea of, co-creation, that artists and fans can make music together and that it can be interactive in this way, it creates a. A deeper bond. It's not just fans streaming a track, they're actively making something with your sound. That creates, a level of loyalty and belonging, that fans are always looking for. And then, the icing on the cake there is that, then they also are your, become. Your fan army, they're your amplification. Once, they've had a really unique and cool experience with you as an artist, they're gonna tell people. That's, just what drives that connection and drives growth for artists. But, artists need to think about the gaming space. They need to, if it's, if it's authentic to them and they, they can lean in, then I encourage them to, because, it's where kids are hanging out, you know. Silly thing, but, kids used to hang out outside or whatever they did when they got from school with their friends. Now they hang out with their friends in Roblox. And that's cool. In our game, on Roblox, it's actually like a giant skate park and, you can get on a skateboard or bike or rollerblades or whatever you choose is your, vehicle. Hang out with your friends. While you're hanging out with your friends, you're also just having music, musical experience and, sometimes you might get on stage and perform, a track for yourself. There's, it's like what we've always done. Kids have always done, doing it in this new space. And then the advice to artists is always go find out where your fans are hanging out. Go meet them there and don't, beg them to come to you. 'Cause fans want an authentic experience and, and they want to be seen.

Michael: Hmm. Makes sense. Yep. So what I'm hearing you say is that really like the biggest benefit is just from connection, connection and community building and, when you have these live experiences, people probably in a more direct way are actually building relationships and connecting 'cause they're there live in person, having conversations back and forth. As opposed to, a post that, sort of is lacking that authenticity or that, that real, connection that's happening?

Allison: Yeah. We, in our, in our Roblox game, we actually bring artists in, occasionally to do activations. And what I mean by that, just to say it, is we turn them into a Roblox avatar, their likeness into a Roblox avatar, but then they actually come in as the player. So they're powering their avatar. What's incredible about these experiences always to me is that our user base, whether they know the artist or don't know the artist, they lose their minds over the opportunity to just get a chance to interact with an artist, to ask them questions about how they became an artist, or why they wanna be, what, like what kind of drove them to this, to this place in their career. And the other thing that's amazing is that you. You see them saying, because, like you said, they're connecting right there. There's a chat and they, you see them saying things in the chat like, I didn't know who you were before, but I just listened to all of your music and I've added it to all of my playlists and I, I, as a marketing person, just, get so much joy out of that. The thing that you normally would maybe. Pay an influencer to say or do. So, really what you want to happen is happening just so organically inside of this, environment and part of it. I think the reason why is because it is the natural environment for those fans and so they just feel comfortable and they just fan out.

Michael: Yeah. Cool. Yeah, I mean, it, it just reminds me of my relationship with, with my kids and, and making music for them. And, kids are just so wonderful. Wonderful 'cause they're just, pure, pure energy and, and they're totally so, innocent and, and also just, right where I'm just. In awe, in awe from, everything. So, they, they really do, it can make a really positive impact on them. I think, having that type of experience where they, where they can, interact with an artist that they look up to. One, one question I have around. I mean, obviously the space is, very cutting edge and it's new. I'm guessing that the audience tends to skew towards, younger kids who are playing Roblox. What would your advice be for someone that this is really kind of pushing their comfort zone or they're, they have, they're not necessarily super tech, savvy. Is this still something that you think that those folks should start to explore as well to get, kind of, get familiar with it? Or you think this is more something that's, like you'd recommend for someone who. Is really geeking out about, technology in this kind of world? Or what are your thoughts there?

Allison: Yeah, so, I think, I keep using this word authenticity because I think it is really important. We always tell artists, if, if you're comfortable coming in and hanging out in the game and, interacting with fans, then you should do that. But what I, what I can say for at least from in the Splash ecosystem is that, our Remix product is, it's actually a way for artists to kind of tap into this same experience and same audience. If they're not tech savvy or they're not super, lean-in on that side to, do it. They still participate and kind of participate at scale. If you don't mind, talk a little bit about how that works, just so you, so you know what I mean. We work, directly with artists to develop sound drops on the We Mixed platform. And the sound drops, they capture the essence of the artist's sound. So whether that be, the sound of a focus track or the sound of an album or era in their career. And then fans. On our platform, they, they pick a sound to mix with that fits their vibe and then they hum or sing some lyrics into their phone. No gear or studio equipment or setup or anything like that required. And we, magically turn that fan input, vocal input into a high quality musical expression that represents the artist sound and the fan personalization. Cool. And, doesn't, the artist puts their, the artistry up front into the sound drop and then the fan's able to, create that personalization. Those are the kinds of, connection bonds that we're talking about that an artist can do at scale without. Participating necessarily in the Roblox, world or experience. But then those musical expressions, they power the soundtrack to our game. It's a, user generated and personalized soundtrack that, that lives inside of that. And then, we have, dual attribution on anywhere that those fan mixes appear. So yeah, Allison made a mix with Vander Locks and, that's, something really cool. It serves both as the way that I get to connect and fall in love with that artist. And also, a way for, for that artist to get discovered by that audience of gamers who are super leaned in and really paying attention.

Michael: That's so interesting. What I'm hearing you say is that with these sound drops, really a huge part of the platform is about the co-creation and about, artists creating the base materials for, for fans to actually create their own remixes and create their own, twist on the, the songs themselves. It, it does seem like that, there's one point that comes up a lot during, during this podcast is from, folks who are talking about the importance of, in community building for everyone to have, a shared identity or to, to be able to express themselves. It's through music and it's kind of a humbling experience, I think, as an artist when you realize that it's bigger than just you, but it's really about, the fans and their expression and their identity with. With your music and how they've, taken that in their own way. So it makes a lot of sense that the remix, features that you've built into it, have really helped people to build a stronger bond, a stronger relationship.

Allison: Yeah, absolutely. Fandom is always been about self-expression, right? And, for, for as long as I, as I've been a fan, I think, and I, and, it becomes part of who you are. It's part of how you build your community. It's part of how you find your people. And, I think what, what's maybe different now is just the technology around it, right? Most, most young people, I would say, would consider themselves content creators. Rather than passive consumers because of the developments in technology and because of the platforms that are available, like these gaming spaces where they just create and they just create effortlessly. And that just becomes part of who they are. But, to be able to do it with music, super easy, super simple, express yourself, and. In that way, also find your community and get support from other people and become part of, the musical experience. That's, I think that's just something that we're gonna see even more and more of. I can now imagine that we're gonna go in other direction anyway. Which I will say I love because. One of the things that I, I will, I, I didn't say this before, but I'm a musician myself and, I grew up, I was a super shy kid and I, musical expression to me was, how I, how I kind of practiced that outward, behavior that I was, that I was trying to learn. And, it's. It's hard for me when I see people that ha, they kind of, lose their confidence in musical expression. Everyone is inherently musical when we're born or musical. And I think, we, we all sort of, we, we lose that, the confidence in that and the, kind of fun and the, the playfulness and the expression of music, whether that be through. Vocalization or instrumentation or movement even. Hmm. And what we love about, this, what we love about Remix and, and what's going on inside of our Roblox game is that we're kind of changing people's relationship to music. If you can actually just sing. Do your best effort and sing into your phone and output something that you can actually be proud of and you want to share with your friends. That's, that's a pretty powerful experience. And you see, we see it actually in the, in the fan inputs is just a little, interesting tidbit for, for the nerdy musical side of me. Listening to some of the fan inputs, you'll hear people who do repeat mixes and, and, make multiple mixes. You can hear the confidence in their voice, coming back after doing it multiple times and, getting it under their belt. They, they, they become more connected to the experience of making music and, that's just. And that's just something that I think is, super, super important, for humans to do. And, something that's kind of been missing, I think in, definitely in the gaming space. And also in the music space, I would say. Hmm. In the fandom space. I should correct myself.

Michael: Thank, thank you for sharing that. I mean, there, there's a few points where you're sharing that. I started to feel, emotional. 'Cause I, it's something that I, I really, resonate with that is, sort of, this, value of, you deserve to be heard. And when you mentioned, kids as they're growing up and they, they haven't built those layers of shame or guilt yet about expressing who they are. And, it's, it is actually on my, vision board that, that I had made. There's, it says you deserve to be heard. And it seems like it's one of those things that you're, you're seeing happen is that people are kind of learning to become more comfortable with who they are, expressing their voice. And connecting with that is, you know, so the, it feels like that's one of the great mysteries or the reasons that we're, we're here, that we're alive is to figure out who, you know, to express ourselves and. You know, and giving people the platform to be able to share who they are and their voices is really important.

Allison: Yeah.

Michael: Platform.

Allison: Yeah, I, I mean, besides the fact that music is, good for us and all of that, you know, musical. But yeah, it's, it's super important. I think it's, I think that's, that's actually, like I said, what been one of the, the most interesting takeaways of, of doing this project, of, building Remix. It's just that, not knowing if, people are gonna come in and have a lyric idea for, in their head that they want to sing or have a little melody, we weren't really sure when we set out, you, you have, you, you know it in your gut, you feel it, you know it's gonna happen. But until you, kind of start to get the, the real examples. What we've heard from our user base and, seen the mixes that they've made and heard them, it's, they'll find, they'll, they'll stop at nothing to make, a better and better mix each time and to, find a way to, get their lyrics in there or share their little melody that they've made up. And, that's just incredible. It's really cool to be part of that.

Michael: Hmm. That's really cool. Yeah. One thing I'd be curious to hear your perspective on is. It feels like we're in, sort of, a crossroads right now for humanity in some ways where technology is, is evolving so fast now that we have AI and we have the internet and social media and there's a lot of amazing blessings and things that just, it would been hard to even imagine a hundred years ago and it's just going faster and faster. So I think there's a lot of excitement and, new opportunities, but also I think that there's, a growing. Movement as well that's, sort of, at tension with the idea of technology and progress and sort of a feeling of not wanting to lose our humanity or lose ourselves, in, in digital spaces like social media. And, I would love to hear your perspective on just, that, tension and, yeah, I, I, I, I wanna hear your, your answer first and, just kinda get your perspective for anyone that, especially musicians who are really in touch with who they are and expressing themselves, that might have that fear or concern about technology. How can we use this in a healthy way to actually, not lose ourselves, but actually, connect with people and express ourselves more?

Allison: Yeah, wonderful question. And, I feel like it does come up in a lot of these, circles that, that we talk in and on panels and things like that. What I, what I usually say, I always, sort of come back to this, which I think is, none of the technologies, whether that be the platforms or the softwares, AI, things like that, it's, it shouldn't be, and it's not here to replace artistry and, creativity. I think the way that I think about the technologies and, and the advancements and stuff is that it's just a way to unlock participation. It's a way to, it's like a doorway, right? Lower the barrier to, whatever the entry may be. I think about the benefits often when I try to, I know that there, that, that there are those concerns, but I try to think about the benefits, there are globalization benefits to, the technologies that are available to us now. Opportunity that didn't, that wasn't present for many people everywhere, to, to participate in whatever the conversation or the experience is. I think the thing for artists to remember is that they still are at the core of that. They provide the culture. They create the culture and the sounds and, the. Heartbeat of the music that we all love and experience. And so, it's, I think it's a, it's a harder challenge for artists now, to say, Hey, you've gotta, you have to hone your artistry. You have to have, you have, you have to lean into that, because that is really what will set you apart. But. People don't, I mean, I think specifically in terms of, music making, lots of people s. When they go to create music, their, their main reference point is a song that they love, or an artist that they, that they admire, or, an instrumentalist that they, that they, totally stan over. There's usually a reference point, and that reference point is an artist. And so, I think that as long as, artists keep pushing the, boundaries of creation and keep, expressing themselves, then we will continue to be able to hold them up as, the, the center of all of this. It's, it's a nice, like, it's a nice worldview to have, artistry as artistry and that will never be replaced. But is there, it is really, true. There's, art imitates art, or people say that. Because you start out falling in love first and then expressing yourself. And that's, sort of the natural progression of things. And I think just the idea is, if you can embrace the technologies to help empower you, as an artist and help you connect with your fans or help you, find a global audience that you couldn't previously, or, help your fans participate in what you're doing, then, then the technologies are all for the better. And then the other thing I would say is just. Technologies continue to change over time and there's always gonna be something new. It's always, that's always the case, there's always gonna be some crazy new technology that comes out. And what I love to see is when the artists just lean full forward into that, they just want to say, Hey. I'm here to, to actually just experiment. 'Cause that's really what artistry is, is all about in the first place, you know. I, I encourage that type of behavior, but I, but I also fully understand what artists are, are nervous about it, you know. Mm-hmm.

Michael: That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. What, what I'm hearing you say is that really, a lot of, it comes back to that word that you've mentioned a few times, authenticity. And, using these tools in a way that, actually expresses who you are and expresses your artwork and you're thinking about the technology, not as, a thing that's going to replace who we are or replace the artwork, but really as, a tool that helps us to have a doorway. Or to bridge, easier and faster between your ideas and your creativity and your art and making them real, making them a reality. And so as long as, we focus on, that part of it, which is the most important part, is the connection in the community, then the technologies evolve and they change. But they just help. They really help you to express yourself, more fully and to be able to connect in, in a faster, easier way.

Allison: Yeah. Hmm,

Michael: that makes a lot of sense. I mean, I feel like, social media is a, a big part of the reason that people feel a bit, at dis-ease with technology and in social media in some ways. I feel like the issue with it is just the media itself, where it's, I dunno, people, if people are posting stuff and, I don't know, editing it down or polishing it, it's losing that authenticity that you're talking about and it's more about, trying to make an appearance of, looking a certain way, whereas something like what you've created, this platform is about live connection and experience and there's something a lot more authentic and rooted about live connections. Why music, has always been, at its finest when it's live and it's with communities coming together. Cool. Can you walk me through, I mean, this is, this is really fun. I, I love, I love what you've created. I love the, the heart behind it and I'm excited. Dive into with my son. Yeah. And, yeah, I'm curious, just from, a zooming out, looking at, a pathway for artists. There's someone listening to this right now who is interested in exploring the platform, who would like to get involved or dive in, what does it look like in terms of, a, a user journey for, a new artist to, to hop into the platform and, start experimenting?

Allison: Yeah. So, like I mentioned, Jo, jumping into Remix is actually probably the best place to start, because it, is just a music community of people creating together. Artists can join the platform and get involved and, start mixing, making their own mixes and create their own, sort of, experience and profile there. There's a lot of, social features inside of what we're doing. 'Cause we, want, make sure that the fans are getting that level of recognition and, excitement that they, that they're looking for and sharing and being proud of their mixes that they've made. But, I, I think, we see artists and creators doing all kinds of really interesting things like, kind of challenging fans to make songs with particular lyric prompts or, around particular themes. The kind of stuff that, you see, happening, on other, types of social platforms is just that, sort of, getting together and, kind of, you know, challenging each other. But it's not that dissimilar to how the creation process works for artists in general, right? It's like getting in a room and, kind of, jamming on an idea, and seeing what comes out. Joining, joining the We Mixed, community is, what I would encourage and then, like I said, we work directly with artists if they're interested in actually putting their sounds on our platform, for fans to mix with, which they can certainly, join in with us, from that side as well. And we think, that, there's a lot of, lot, ton of, benefit there. Artists, on the, on the Remix platform, haven't heard, over. 650 million times via thousands and thousands of these fan-created mixes that promote the artist sound. But it's not actually just the artists who are getting noticed. Like I keep saying, the fans who make the mixes, they're actually reaching hundreds of thousands of plays themselves on the collaborations with the artists. And, like I said, they. There's, the, we, we have a dual attribution model, so anywhere that that mix appears, it's gonna say, who the fan was that made it and who the artist was that, was the, was the, starter of that sound. And, it's. Like I say, it's, it's just creating that, deeper level of connection and that loyalty of, when you make something together with somebody, and you can, both put your name on it. There's something to be proud of there. So, and that's, a, a shared experience that, you get to have.

Michael: Hmm. Super smart. I mean, there, there's so many good things that happen with collaboration and co-creation. That's what it reminds me of, an analogy of having two fires that, you know, alone, they're fires, but when you put 'em together, it burns brighter. And then when you bring 'em apart, they're both burning brighter because, because the fire isn't, limited to, one, or it's not like it steals, like the, it's like no, like it literally, coming together. It creates, a, a greater flame. Those kinds of collaborations are, are a really cool thing to, to explore. It's great that it's built directly into the platform and I know a lot of, artists, do a lot of co-creation and collaborations and it just seems like a beautiful, beautiful way to create together.

Allison: Yeah, absolutely. I can, say from, past experience as well, my other, roles, it's when creators are able to find each other easily and to discover each other's sound super easily. That is when new genres emerge and different things happen in the music space that weren't happening before. So I think, being able to just, kind of, create an open, opportunity for people to find and connect, again, it's that connection thing, right? Music is just all about connection. It's about, just connecting with whatever it is. It's the artistry, it's the person, it's the artist, it's the fan, it's the sound, it's just, being able to connect. And then what we believe is, just being able to participate, to, kind of, jump in and just throw your voice on that and, make it something that you feel proud of.

Michael: Hmm. Awesome. Yeah, that, that was one thing that, that flashed, as, as we were talking earlier, just, how cool, it would be to use this platform for artists to, to find co-creators and to, write songs together. If I can totally imagine a future where, because co-writing has always been so important for songwriting and collaboration, but. Often, I mean, it's great to be in person together, but also there's so many benefits to, remotely being able to hop on, something like Zoom and be able to, co-create. But it's very, limited to our little, our little tiny screen. So

Allison: That's right. You

Michael: gotta imagine that in the future it's gonna be, like, we'll be here, but, together and, a space and we'll be able to write together. And it seems like the platform that you're building is well, suited for that type of collaboration.

Allison: Yeah, it absolutely is. We're really looking forward to seeing how it evolves. 'Cause I think the thing that, the other thing that's totally true is, artists and creators, they're just gonna keep doing, they're just gonna keep creating and iterating and finding new ways to, turn it into something even cooler. We get to act, we, we get to create the technology and to set it up and, and to talk to people, about why they should come and become a part of it. But then the, the actual creative energy that lives inside of that community, I mean, that's, it's, it's uncontrollable and we would never want to, we just want to let it, kind of, kind of grow and build and, and become something special.

Michael: That's so cool. Yeah. It's like, the soul. The soul of the community. The soul of the platform. Awesome. Well, Allison, this has been a great conversation. Really excited to explore the platform more myself. I appreciate you taking the time to come on here and share a little bit about what you've created. For anyone that's listening or watching this right now, who is also, excited about exploring the platform and wants to get started, what's, the first place that they can go to dive deeper?

Allison: Yeah, well, I, I encourage you to check out We Mixed, wemixed.com, so that's, wemixed.com. We Mixed and, sign up and just jump in and, listen to, listen to, check out some of the cool fan mixes that are there, and then just give it a try yourself. It's super easy to do.

Michael: Mm. Awesome. Like always, we'll pull out the links of the show notes for Easy Access. And Allison, thanks again for being on the podcast today.

Allison: Yeah, thank you for having me. This was awesome.