Michael Walker: Yeah. All right. I am excited to be here today with my new friend, Jesse Kirshbaum. Jesse is the CEO and founder of Nue Agency. They help artists break through by crafting campaigns that connect music with culture and brands. He's built accelerators like SoundCtrl, CRWN, and The Patch. And I'm excited to have him on the podcast today to talk a little bit about the cross section between culture, music, and analytics and how you can position who you are in your music and your story along with kind of the bigger wave of what's happening around you. So Jesse, thank you so much for being a part of the podcast today.

Jesse Kirshbaum: It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me. It's great to be here and really nice to connect with you, Michael, and excited to chat.

Michael: Absolutely. You know, one thing I did, I didn't mention in the intro too, is, if I remember correctly, you have the most widely read newsletter on LinkedIn for this stuff. Is that right?

Jesse: Yeah. I really live in the intersection of music, technology, and brand partnerships. So my agency is doing all sorts of these deals on a pretty regular basis, but then I chronicle it and put a POV around it. And it is, it's the biggest music and brand newsletter on LinkedIn. And then also even bigger subscribership through my distribution. And then also it's syndicated on CelebrityAccess. So it reaches a pretty wide audience. It's a weekly. I scour about, you know, a thousand articles, select a hundred to read, and then pick ten basically each week to share, so that not everybody has to read everything going on in the space. I can give you a great digest, and it's really like going to the trends gym for me, but also it's a give back, a love letter, so to speak, to the music business each week.

Michael: Hmm. Awesome, man. What a valuable resource and very needed in today's day and age when there's so much information. We really need ways to kind of just channel it down and kind of get it to the least amount that we really need in order to take action.

Jesse: Yeah, I feel like newsletters and podcast hosts, they're like kind of the new mixtape DJs and VJs in a lot of ways. This is kind of like my version of a kind of curatorial spin on what's happening. And I was growing up in New York loving the mixtape scene and making mixtapes and playlists. I still do all the time for friends and colleagues, but this kind of feels like the new age mixtape. I get to put my shoutouts in there. I get to highlight the tracks, break new news, tell stories, tell my stories. It's a lot of fun, and it keeps me very, very sharp.

Michael: Hmm. Cool. Oh, I like that analogy. It seems like a very natural journey, kind of going from mixtapes and creation to sort of creating a modern day mixtape of the music industry. Cool. Well, we'd love to hear a little bit more about your backstory in terms of starting this and, you know, how you came to create the world's most widely viewed newsletter on LinkedIn.

Jesse: My background is in finding and representing talent. So I pretty early on realized I wanted to be in the music business, well, at least in college, and started studying business and started studying marketing, started studying international relationships, and hustled my way into internships and just really fell in love with this business and just noticing that this is just such a dynamic, exciting industry. And there's so much to learn. You get to work with so many different creative people, and I was trying to figure out what my kind of foothold would be. And so the early part of my career, I was gonna go to law school, and a family friend was explaining to me, who was a lawyer, you're already throwing parties, you're already in the mix, you should be an agent. The best way to learn and to work with talent. And so I got a job at a boutique talent agency at 22, and I basically was told, you're not going the old school route, you're not going through the big William Morris CAAs, and if you can sign X yourself, we'll let you represent them. So I thought that was appealing to me to kind of go with this indie spirit and to be able to work with talent and not give my twenties up to being in a mailroom, to being on a desk, and then maybe eventually, if I make it through the obstacle course, have a chance to start representing artists and actually making something happen. So I did that. I worked at a boutique, and I was an agent and an agent's assistant. I was a better agent than I was an agent's assistant. And I signed The Clipse when I was 23, and they went number two on the pop charts and toured with Pharrell and toured with Nelly all throughout arenas and Jay-Z all throughout Europe and 50 Cent and the college market right when 50 Cent was coming out. And that was basically my entree and entry point into really representing talent. I did that for some time, and then I started my own agency in 2007 representing talent and coming at it with a new spin, which is why we called it Nue Agency. And in that model I was finding artists early and helping them break. I was really focused on the college market, which I thought was a niche that was kind of under-serviced at the time by the bigger agencies, and also the tech market, and befriending the kind of next evolution of the tech business, who I thought were like gonna be the saviors to the music business. So I had a different approach than like the hell with Spotify. I was helping Spotify launch in the U.S. and was representing them for the college market. And so ultimately I represented artists for about seven, eight years. Had a lot of luck, had a lot of success. Represented artists like Wale, represented artists like Mike Posner, represented Logic, White Panda, which is now Gryffin, Action Bronson, 2AM Club, which has now spawned Marc E. Bassy as a solo artist, Chiddy Bang, Pusha T, J. Cole, Big Sean. I was working with all of those artists really early and right out of college essentially, and booking their mixtape tours and their live tours and their House of Blues tours and their big headlining tours when they had number one albums. So I was an agent for about eight years, and then I changed my business model to representing brands, because I was already talking to so many brands and I was a first line of defense for so many of these artists with brands, and I was making brand relationships. And I just felt like at a certain point in my life I wanted to make this kind of creative rebrand and shift, and I started putting together music and tech events and started meeting folks in the music and tech space. And I started representing brands. You mentioned Sour Patch Kids, The Patch House. We launched a whole program for them, which ran for three years, helping emerging artists and putting them in these kind of well-thought-out houses. Before there were influencer houses, before there were all these kind of hype houses, there was the Patch program, which really was a fresh way to support artists, isolating a pain point, giving them a place to stay while touring. And they were creating all this great content around Sour Patch Kids, who at the time saw themselves as an emerging candy brand in the space. They were based on Cabbage Patch Kids. They were kind of a new player compared to Skittles and gummy worms. And by the end of this three-year run, they became the number one candy in the category. And so obviously eventually they had to rethink their strategy and campaign. But we had so many great artists that were on their first run staying at these Sour Patch Kids houses and all of that. Now doing that model for about eight years is very entrepreneurial, work with a whole bevy of great brands, and come at it from the artist representation lens, because I used to rep artists. I understand their sensibility. I understand what they like. I know what it's like in their team early on as they grow. And so it allows me to kind of be able to create these type of partnerships and bring brand dollars and usher brands into the music business in a strategic way. And I think all of that has just led me to have more of a following and more of an audience. And really the way the newsletter, to kind of circle back to your question, has become so influential is just the consistency, the inside information, the hustle, the POV, the work. You know, this is not an overnight success. Sometimes these take 10, 20 years to really land that type of understanding and recognition. And so that's basically how it's come together. It's really just a kind of consistent evolution from representing artists to representing brands to telling these stories, using the power of technology as the great accelerant.

Michael: Cool, man. Thank you for sharing. That is a very impressive journey. It sounds like a few different phases that you've even gone through of reinventing yourself and then creating success and complementary, but also like kind of different roles. And it seems like a big plus one to just the overall concept of learning by doing and jumping in, you know, rather than as you described, like going and doing something for ten years so that at some point you could kind of figure out how to do it. You just like started out at the gate, 22 years old, doing it, putting, getting your hands in, which is awesome. So having this perspective now, I mean, you have a great background from where things have come from in the past couple of decades, you know, with the music industry and what's happening right now. I’ve heard that when people are interviewed, they always feel like they’re in a state of massive transition. So maybe this is just always the way it is. It's like, oh, we're always in a big transition. But it certainly feels like right now with AI and technology is just explosive in a very novel way. And so I would love to hear your perspective as someone that is so tapped into the finger on the pulse of the industry trends, both where we came from, what's happening right now, and you're keeping yourself sharp with all these different sources. What do you see as sort of the defining problem of the current season that we're in right now and, based on that, where things are headed to solve that problem?

Jesse: Yeah. I look at these 2020s and this era as really defined as the great transformation, and in this transformation, it's really kind of made up of a couple elements. One is this creator economy boom that we're seeing, especially coming off of a COVID era, and mixing that with AI and this ability to have all of these creative tools and huge content engines and supercomputer machinery behind us is just leading to a rapid change in the way we're all connecting, creating culture in general. It's all being defined in this kind of roaring 2020s thanks to those three elements, with a bunch of other macro elements too with political regimes and world-changing dynamics and stuff like that. But I really kind of focus in on those three areas as what's gonna define the 2020s. If you look at the 2010s, it was really all about the recession of 2000, the gig economy, which defined all of these great companies like Uber and Venmo and Airbnb and Pinterest. They all came out of that gig economy era. Right now, we're in the creator economy era. This is good news for music and musicians and creators and podcasters and influencers in general, because there's a much better mechanism for brands and brand dollars and revenue streams to be able to come into the music business, because musicians are the ultimate creators. They're the influencers with talent. They make something. They're not just with cute eyelashes or famous because they're really good at posting. They make this amazing art that's very transformable or transferable, it moves at the speed of sound, and is almost like a Trojan horse for music creators and music influencers and musicians that wanna play by the rules of the creator economy. The problem that we see, especially with all this AI now making it even faster and all of these creators, creators becoming a full-on job and career path for so many people, is there's so much noise. It is no longer just an era of being played on MTV or getting on the radio, and that's the kind of ticket. If you're there, then you've made it, and if not, you don't. Now, there's so many different ways to make a living, but there's so much competition for your attention. So how do you break through the noise, and how do you actually make your voice heard and felt and monetize it in a way where you can make a living, sustain a career, sustain a lifestyle, do what you love? I think that is the biggest issue we're seeing here in this kind of creator economy and in the music business in particular, is like, how do you get people to care? And it's very easy to be an amateur musician right now, probably easier than ever, especially with these AI tools. And it's, you know, the top, top artists are even in more demand because of the fact that it's just kind of become a more elite process to work with really notable producers and songwriters and hitmakers. So the biggest of the bigger are really succeeding, and the long tail are having this kind of glorious moment. But we're seeing some issues in most of the economy in this middle-class area, and middle-class musicians and middle-class content creators are really kind of getting the shaft in a lot of ways. So I think the big issues we need to figure out is how to help people cut through the noise, how to make their message really connect, and then how to be able to flow some of these opportunities into this really sophisticated, talented musician that isn't necessarily on the top of the chart, but is steps above an amateur and really wants to make it their career and their life and dedicate to their craft.

Michael: Hmm. Yeah, that's so, so good. That was probably one of the best articulated summaries, I think, of the current state of the industry that I've heard in a long time. Which makes sense, because this is kind of like your purpose for being here, what you do with your newsletter. But just for context, Jesse, it's basically what you just described is the reason that we exist as a platform. We, earlier this year, we launched a software as a service called StreetTeam. That's sort of like if Discord and Patreon and Facebook groups had a baby. Instead of Mark Zuckerberg owning the baby, the artist owns their fan relationships, and they're able to connect directly through email, text messages, et cetera. So just for that context, you know, that's basically our purpose for being here, to create that platform to help service this need. And based on your experience and based on the current state that we're in right now that you described, as, you know, artists struggling to cut through the noise because it's easier than ever to make music, there's more music than ever, there's AI-generated music, and so just so much noise. Learning how to actually cut through and build a relationship, connect with people, is challenging. I'm curious what you would recommend for artists who might be listening or watching this right now, are kind of at this earlier stage in their career where, let's imagine that they do have amazing music. They have like three songs they feel really proud of. They've put in the time, the effort, they have three amazing songs. And now they're like, okay, how do I build a community? How do I make this sustainable? How do I monetize it? What would be some recommendations you'd have for them to help them to start to cut through the noise?

Jesse: Well, first they have to make a decision. What kind of artist do they want to be? This is brand building 101. I know it. It's annoying to think, but like, I made this, it should get out into the world. But no, that's not how it works in 2025. This is an era where you have to put your music out there. You have to think like a brand. Brands, I always tell, have to think like musicians—creative forces, beacons that’ll tour and connect to their fans in so many great ways and make their music for their fans in some regards. Sometimes they're making it for themself, but you gotta go back to branding 101 to 301 essentially, and really understand your values, what matters to you, what you want to do, and what you wanna stand for, what you wanna be affiliated with. You really have to understand yourself. What do you want? Once you have that, let's say you wanna get your music heard by as many people as possible, and that's your goal, right? Then you have to understand that that's not just gonna happen with you putting it up on TikTok or you putting it on Spotify. You have to go and work that project, and you have to work it in what works for you, for your audience, for your potential to grow your audience. So you have to really be thinking about content and content creation and what that looks like and what's working out there and what isn't. A music video for MTV was what it was in the nineties, and now, I mean, Ed Sheeran's releasing an album next week, and the same music video he is putting out has eight different iterations. It's the teaser to the music video, it's the lyric video, it's the actual version of the music video, it's the behind-the-scenes version of it, it's the memeable one that he puts up for creators to post on TikTok. And I break this all down in, you know, I think my summer H2, you know, second-half trend report. But I think that it's not about just making a thing and hoping it gets out there. You have to position yourself to be a part of the cultural scroll. And that might be in partnerships, partnerships with brands, collaborations with other artists, collaborations with other creators, and also just understanding that the best ideas are shareable in this environment. So how do I make my music, my content, my message in a way that other people will talk about it and share it? And that's work. That's work, that's strategy, that's understanding. It's already a lot to make the music and to pour your heart and soul into a track, but to know that that is such a runway or a first step or an important component, but not even close to a full picture of what you've gotta be thinking about if you really wanna connect and you want your music to connect in this day and age.

Michael: Good stuff. Yeah. So what I'm hearing you say is that easily the most important thing to start with is getting a better understanding of who you are and what you stand for, your values, your brand identity. If you don't know that, then it's like you don't even know what arena you should be playing in. Once you have a better understanding of exactly who you are, what you stand for, your values, what you want to say, your purpose, then you wanna start looking externally at what's happening in the world right now that resonates with that brand, and what are some cultural movements and other brands that have a similar identity, and then start building relationships with those brands and aligning with them to collaborate on sharing the music and probably augmenting their brand through your music. And it sounds like you have some great resources as well in terms of trend reports that people should check out to go deeper into the tactics and strategies. And that's directionally, is that right?

Jesse: I think so. I think in between those two steps is also how much are you willing to put yourself out there? How much are you willing to give to putting your music out there? Making the music is one thing, and then understanding who you are and where you want to go is the other, but the bridge between that is how much work do you wanna do as a content creator? How much do you wanna understand? How deep do you want to go into the world of being a content creator, and are you willing to take those steps? Because that is gonna be the differentiator in getting to being able to connect with all these people and people wanting to connect with you is if you're really doing that work. And so I think you also have to make that commitment to realize that being a musician in 2025 is also being a content creator and an influential voice on social media, and knowing that these tools are gonna be very important to relevance and connectivity to fans and growing your audience.

Michael: Mm. Awesome. I mean, that's a great line or thread I would love to pull a little bit deeper, especially with someone like yourself who has so much experience collaborating and working with artists like Jay-Z who have literally become such a force or such a movement in culture. So, I guess the question is, when you describe that level of commitment and desire and will and really the dedication to kind of show up, I'm curious, where do you think that comes from? Is that something you can cultivate? And are the people that you've worked with, do they have rituals or practices through which they cultivate that level of desire or will, or where do you think that comes from?

Jesse: I think a lot of being a star is just an it factor, and I think that could be from various places. It could be how they were raised. It could be their friends. It could be their experiences. It could just be like a chip inside of them that just gives them that passion or that will to persevere. I think a lot of the times when you're with these super high-performing people, like, oh yeah, there's a reason why they're there and so many aren't. But I think what it also comes down to is willing to put the training in, willing to learn CapCut, willing to learn editing tools, willing to learn different techniques that work on social, willing to make content over and over again for the algorithm, to put yourself out there. It's exhausting, and I think it's skills that you can learn, skills that you might just also have, but it's that kind of perfect storm. I love that phrase where hard work beats talent most of the time, and I think it's especially true: hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work. So you've really gotta understand that there's crafts that now surround your musical talents that are gonna help you put your music out there and connect. And there's a whole suite of tools that are always evolving. I mean, the music AI space is so freaking exciting, and there are so many amazing things at your fingertips, and also on social, and also on editing, and also how the algorithms work, and which platform you best belong on. I think all of those things are learnable. And you almost have to go to YouTube University and pick up those skills in terms of understanding the new technology and being where you need to be for that craft. But I think being a star and writing a great song, so much of that is really context. It's really about timing. It's about who you're speaking to, what you're speaking about, when you're speaking about it. It's really that the world of content and distribution are really important. I always kind of joke about this axiom that first-time founders and probably first-time artists are really obsessed with the content and really making a great product. And second-time founders, if you're a startup, are really focused on distribution. If you can't get in Walmart and Target and CVS, your product is gonna be great, but it's never gonna reach its potential. So you need to be able to have the pipes. You need to be able to know where to go and how to move your music and content through, so that it gets attention. But really the most important thing in this environment is context. In an algorithmic world where you could have 20 followers and you could make this thing, this video that's very resonant, you could get hundreds of millions of views with just a very small following because you can kind of break through the algorithm with the right piece of content at the right time, telling the right story. So I think context is just something you really need to know, and that goes back to what you were saying as kind of point two. What is the environment? Once you understand who you are and the skills and work ethic you're gonna put in, then the question is, where do you belong? Where does your message belong? What can you speak about with a strong POV? Where can you make content that's gonna be relevant for this age that's gonna connect and connect to your music? I think context is the most important thing right now and very hard to translate. And because everything's so nuanced, a video five years ago could resonate right now if it's edited in the right environment. And that's why memes are in many ways the poetry of our time. Like if you define the 2020s, meme culture is driving the stock market. Meme culture is driving the political forces. Meme culture is what makes ideas and concepts really relevant. Those are the water cooler moments. Those are the big kind of crossover things. So that's all context. That's a picture with the right phrase or the right layer of understanding tied to the right thing that makes it extremely relevant and viral in the moment. And I'm not saying everyone needs to be viral. That should be the goal of a musician. But if the goal was to be heard by as many people as possible, to have your music heard by as many people as possible, then these are tactics that I would be approaching with.

Michael: Hmm. It's so interesting, like meme culture in general. And was it Richard Dawkins who kind of popularized the idea of the meme and described, if I understand it correctly, memes as—obviously we think of memes as a funny joke or a picture or something—but really what it represents is sort of this cultural, almost an entity or like a living moment or a movement or something that resonates for a certain reason. And would love to hear your advice. Like you described, it's a nuanced thing and it's evolving rapidly, and the context changes. But if you were an artist right now, and let's say that you had done this inner work too, you kind of identify who you are, your brand identity, your values, and now you're kind of looking at how do I create content that has the best odds of catching with the people that I care about, with the right people. And you start looking at some of these cultural movements or these memes, what would you recommend that they do to get started?

Jesse: I would pick the one that makes sense and jump in and maybe try to tie it back to yourself, but it doesn't necessarily have to be. I would look at trending topics on Twitter, on Google. I would find stories that make sense. I would cherry-pick the ones that really could resonate if it's with a song, a single, tour date, a funny concept, something that resonates with you. I wouldn't be inauthentic. I think that would be a mistake. I think how you can put your brand creative spin, your POV on what's happening in the moment is very valuable context to getting your message out, getting your songs into the cultural zeitgeist. So every one of these memes, they're happening at the U.S. Open. They're happening at the VMAs. They're happening at Fashion Week. You know, that's this week alone. You look at them, you see what they are, and then put your spin on it—like why somebody would look this way when they hear your song, or what it looks like when they hear this lyric, or what it feels like when they're walking in the door of your show in New Jersey this weekend. All sorts of these kinds of memes are what the algorithms love. And it's what's trending topic, and it puts you right in the conversation. And again, you don't know which ones are gonna resonate, so you need to look at it like you gotta take a lot of swings. And in some ways it's a numbers game. Unfortunately, the social graph is not about posting once a week. It's about posting multiple times a day. And so you have to kind of figure out what your strategy is and what resonates. But there's so much context, there's so many conversations, there's so many trending topics that you can jump in, and there's just not many musicians that are doing this well. And so I think it's a cool opportunity because, again, musicians aren't just gonna put a spin on things. Musicians actually make music about this type of stuff. Musicians actually can create this. Musicians can actually tour it in a music venue. They can put these things on screen. They can create real-life experiences. And so they just have such an edge over so many of these other creators in this booming creator economy that's defining the 2020s. So I look at it, and I'm like, musicians should be making songs about this. Musicians should be putting their music in this type of stuff. There's just a lot of cool ways to do this tastefully, but also of the moment. And I love it. I love that you can take your song down from Spotify and change it and put it back up. It's just we're all kind of like living, breathing organisms. So if, you know, like Reid Hoffman once said, if you're not embarrassed by your first iteration, you shipped too late. And so I think we can all change and evolve, and if you need to take your stuff down and rebrand, that's a big part of the game. I just think you need to be putting yourself out there in a strategic manner and really trying to add context to why people should care and why this matters. And I think that would be a smart approach to creating and cutting through the noise and being a part of the conversation, getting more people looking and talking about your music and your artistry.

Michael: Hmm. Awesome. That makes a lot of sense. So what I'm hearing you say is that you gotta start by identifying, having a message worth sharing or something that actually matters and having a voice, a unique voice or a point of view. And one of the best ways to kind of plug in with the channel of what's currently trending, what's the world talking, what's the conversation people are having, is just by entering the conversation and seeing what are the conversations in the first place, and then seeing which parts you actually have an opinion on or you resonate with or kind of moves you one way emotionally or the other, and then actually just having the courage to share your point of view and framing it. I love the idea you shared around using your music as a vehicle—when you have one of those strong points of view that's relevant to the current zeitgeist, writing a song about it and sharing the song. It's like an obvious way to plug into the trends that are happening right now in a way that's authentic to you and your voice. But you're right, I feel like I don't see that very often, but it makes sense in hindsight, looking at artists that have their big cultural moments. When you're looking for a point of view or the right trend, you're looking at the different trends and you have an opinion or a strong emotional reaction to something. How do you determine which are the right points of view that are worth sharing and focusing on and creating songs and things about versus ones that's like, ah, maybe I should avoid that? Is it just the strength of your reaction to it, or how you feel about it? Or what are the ones that you'd recommend an artist who is kind of going through this process really latch onto?

Jesse: I think what resonates for them. I think it's really about that. I mean, I wouldn't do something that's too explicit or too racy, so to speak, because I think that would probably deter a lot of brands. But I think finding what you stand for—and it might be the walk-out music to the New York Mets, and it might be peace in the Middle East. I think whatever matters to you should be what you should be talking about. And I think you can make really tailored, kind of pointed conversations about that. And I don't think it has to just be serious. I think it could be fun. It could be breakfast on Sunday. I think all these ideas are really catchy to some extent with the right context. In a vacuum, who cares about what you had on breakfast on Sunday? But if it's Super Bowl Sunday and everybody's sharing, you go on TikTok and a big hashtag is share what you ate on Sunday, you could make something really special to that. So I think you want to, in some regards, not be fully trend-riding, but I think when it comes to making your music more relatable, the trends could be your friends. And I think look at them and see where it resonates. But move fast because you gotta remember that moving at the speed of culture is important. If you're talking about last week's trend this week, it might be a little late to the party. Sometimes these things catch further. Sometimes there are bigger stories. You just don't know, which is why I think in a lot of ways you wanna try a couple different things. You might be the tenth idea that actually connects. But you can't look at it like once I connect, I'm done either. Once you connect, it's game on. Right now you know what's working, you've got good feedback, now you gotta go even bigger. I think everybody right now wants to be connected to heightened, superstar, aspirational people. So I think if your persona, I think you've gotta kind of elevate your stage persona. Even in your content, if you want people to be like, this person deserves to stand out. So you might be quiet when you're having lunch with your partner, but when the cameras are on, you gotta be thinking like, I'm putting a show on for these people. And so I would approach it with that standpoint too. I would be tapping into the alter ego and really going all out like you would on stage at Madison Square Garden.

Michael: Mm-hmm. Good stuff. And the one phrase you said there, I think it was somewhat—I don't think it was meant to rhyme—but you said like the trends could be your friends, and I was just like, trends could be your friends. Yeah. Cool. Jesse, it's been great connecting today. I really appreciate you being here on the podcast and sharing, kind of finger on the pulse of what's happening right now and also the different waves that you've experienced in the past, how that's led to a crest today. Some really great insights and advice, I think, for artists who are listening to this right now in terms of where to swim along with the current, but do it in a way that's authentic to their voice. In terms of taking next steps or anyone who resonated with this and wants to stay plugged in, and they're like, man, if only there was some kind of resource that helped me stay on top of the trends in the music industry and help me understand how to swim along with it—if only that existed. But wait, it does. You've created it. Could you share a little bit more for anyone that's here right now who wants to dive deeper and connect more with you or subscribe to the newsletter, what you'd recommend to them to go for the next step?

Jesse: Absolutely. My newsletter's called Beats + Bytes, and it's a, again, weekly curatorial spin on what's happening in the world of music and brands. Really, that's my lane. I'm kind of focused on the multihyphenate of music, brands, and technology. That's where I live, and that's the information that I'm sharing. These could be strategies. These could be case studies. These could be partnerships. It's every week in your inbox. There's a lot more to digest. If you want to talk about it, you could find it on all of my socials—my LinkedIn, my Instagram, my Twitter. Everything connects. There's a link to sign up for the newsletter. So my recommendation would be, if you wanna be on the pulse or if you feel like you need to be on the pulse, I'm doing that work for you, and I'm happy to give you the benefit of my expertise. I'm doing this all day, every day. I love this business. I love this industry. I think musicians are the coolest in the world. They're so creative. They're forces. They've got great ideas. They've got amazing fan bases. They can shift culture probably better than most out here. And I think that I've been in the business my whole professional adult life, and I plan on staying in it as long as I can. It's always ebbing and flowing. It's super dynamic. But at the end of the day, all day long, I get to listen to music, talk about music, go to cool concerts, shows, events, and synthesize my thoughts to hopefully help more people and build out elaborate strategies to help more and more brands figure out how to work with music in an effective way.

Michael: Awesome. Well, Jesse, like always, we'll put all the links in the show notes for easy access for folks who wanna dive deeper, and I really appreciate you taking the time to be on the podcast.

Jesse: It was a pleasure, Michael. Thanks for reaching out, and I hope everybody found this information useful. It was a lot of fun jamming with you, and hopefully more to come.